---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: John Coffey <john2001plus@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 2:30 PM
Subject: Facebook political discussion.
To:
From: John Coffey <john2001plus@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 2:30 PM
Subject: Facebook political discussion.
To:
"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in." - Michael Corleone in Godfather Part III. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU
Just when I was vowing to stop worrying about politics, I get sufficiently prodded on Facebook to make me want to respond...
Norm Jenson I understand the frustration of both conservatives and liberals. Promises promises and nothing much happens.where we differ is on the causes. The conservative solution is lower taxes and less government but I think that misses the cause which I believe is corporate personhood Citizens United in short corporate money in politics. This extends to the wealthy in general they buy a larger voice in decisions made it's not one man one vote but more like one dollar one vote as long as that's the case change comes slowly if at all. I don't believe the libertarian model will work I think it just makes the problem worse
John Coffey I believe in freedom. I think that freedom leads to economic growth. I think that we need economic growth, especially since we are 20 trillion dollars in debt, not counting unfunded entitlements which are much larger. I think that there is strong evidence that larger more intrusive governments reduce economic growth. Studies have been done on this, but on simplest level you can compare countries on one extreme, like North Korea and Cuba, to countries on the other extreme like Luxembourg and Liechtenstein. All the countries between tend to be on a linear scale where the more free are the more prosperous.
It is not consistent with Freedom to have the government steal from one person to give to another. The Libertarian solution is to not give the government so much power that the powerful can influence it. (Right Steve Kusaba?)
It is not consistent with Freedom to have the government steal from one person to give to another. The Libertarian solution is to not give the government so much power that the powerful can influence it. (Right Steve Kusaba?)
Norm Jenson and I believe in fairness. If there are no restrictions on freedom there is no justice. Freedom unchecked is slavery. Take monopolies as an example
Norm Jenson or take Trumps business practices he sometimes doesn't pay people he hires and they have no recourse because the costs of fighting his big bucks is prohibitive. That's the kind of fairness I'm talking about. He's free to use his money to screw people.
John Coffey This resembles the book 1984 doublespeak quote stating "Freedom is slavery." "Unchecked freedom" is hard to define, but I am not pure libertarian because I believe in regulations to prevent abuses. I think that government can and should protect its citizens.
John Coffey The left never ceases in its distortions about Trump. If you are as big of a businessman as Trump is, then there are going to be contract and labor disputes. Said Trump, "Let's say that they do a job that's not good, or a job that they didn't finish, or a job that was way late. I'll deduct from their contract, absolutely," Trump said. "That's what the country should be doing."
'To be sure, Trump and his companies have prevailed in many legal disputes over missing payments.' http://www.usatoday.com/.../donald-trump-unpaid.../85297274/
'To be sure, Trump and his companies have prevailed in many legal disputes over missing payments.' http://www.usatoday.com/.../
John Coffey I am sorry that we disagree. I think that a free society is the most fair. I think that the poor benefit the most from a free society. The poor are far better off in free societies than they are in less free societies, even if those societies are less "fair." Although we have different views, we want the same thing, which is to help people.
Norm Jenson I think the fact that the rich can and do take advantage by threatening to tie people up in court which denied them justice. What regulations would you favor to prevent that kind of abuse? Be specific
John Coffey You are always commanding me to say something, when in this case I had finished all I had wanted to say. I think that our laws and are courts are nightmarishly complex, which is a symptom of too much government. I have frequently advocated scrapping all our regulations, and starting over with something that is much simpler and more reasonable. I especially believe this about the tax code, which is one of the positions advocated by Donald Trump. We should look for ways to simplify the court system too.
Norm Jenson As a practical matter we can't simply scrap everything and start over. The structural problem will remain money determining policy and laws until those structural problems are addressed were doomed corporate personhood citizens united will slow meaningful change. The rich like a system where they pay little or no taxes. They have the power and trumps tax policies will simply increase that power
John Coffey I think that all this concern about whether the system is "fair" could and has lead to a loss of freedom because the government becomes intrusive in its enforcement of fairness. You have a system where the top 1% pay 24% of all federal taxes and the top 10% pay 53% of all federal taxes, and people still perpetuate the myth that the rich pay no taxes. http://www.cnsnews.com/.../1-percenters-pay-24-percent...
Norm Jenson well it seems clear Donald Trump doesn't pay much in taxes. I'm perfectly willing to sacrifice some freedom for a fairer and more compassionate society. That's something each individual decides for themselves that's why I'm a liberal. We have different things we find valuable.
John Coffey I think that the intrusiveness of government is so detrimental that it outweighs the benefits. I think that in the interest of fairness, we are half way to totalitarianism, or at least a third of the way there. This is in the name of fairness, which to me is a false god. Free societies are inherently unfair, because some benefit more than others, but people are by far better off in a free society. Societies with big governments and socialism are equally unfair, if not more so, where the distribution of wealth is just as maladjusted, because people use government and power to their benefit, like they do with our government. Best wishes, John
John Coffey Thanks. :-)
